The Helicopter Job Market
It’s pretty shameful.
Knowing how to fly a helicopter isn’t exactly a common skill.
It takes at least 40 hours of flight time to get a private license, although most people need at least 60 to pass the check ride. At at least $200/hour, the cost alone is enough to scare most people away from learning.
Then, to get a commercial license so you can do it for hire, you need 100 hours of pilot in command time (at about $200/hour if you rent) and to pass yet another, more stringent check ride.
So then you can get a job, right? Not quite. No one is going to hire a 150-hour pilot to fly their helicopter with paying passengers aboard. In fact, you probably won’t be able to find a job flying for someone else until you have at least 1,000 hours of pilot in command time.
How do you build that time? Most people do it by becoming a flight instructor or CFI. That’s more training, more requirements, and another check ride. Then shamefully low pay rates — maybe $15 to $25/hour? That might sound good, but we’re not talking about a 40-hour work week. You get paid based on when you teach. That might be 10 or 20 hours a week. I don’t know too many people who can live on that.
(I did it the more expensive way. I bought a helicopter and flew the paint off it. Figuratively, of course.)
So now you’ve got 1,000 hours of PIC time, accumulated over a period of about 2 to 3 years. You’re ready for a “real” job. Fly tours at the Grand Canyon (like I did). It’s great experience, but the pay is only slightly better than what a CFI gets. Fly in the Gulf of Mexico, bringing oil rig workers and VIPs to and from platforms on a featureless, watery landscape, miles from land, in good and bad weather. More good experience, slightly better pay. Pretty crappy living conditions, from what I hear. And I don’t think many women work out there. (Would love to hear from a woman who does; use the Comments link.)
Want a high paying job? One of those $80,000/year job you hear about on radio commercials and in seminars? You’ll need several thousand hours of turbine helicopter experience (which you usually can’t get as a CFI), long line experience, and a “OAS/USFS card.” You’ll have to work your way up through the ranks on other kinds of helicopters to get to this stage.
And, oh yes, you have to be willing to be away from home at least 14 days out of every month.
My friend, Rod, is among the handful of people who qualify for the good paying jobs. He does all kinds of long line work — logging, fire fighting — you name it. But the long hours, questionable living conditions, and time away from home burns him out so badly, he can only work half a year. He actually spent a winter delivering propane (from a truck) just to get away from flying.
Think I’m lying about job requirements? Check out these links for helicopter jobs:
Even police helicopter pilot jobs start at less than $50K. And they require police training, too.
And I think that’s amazing. Helicopter pilots have an incredible skill that few other people have. They have thousands of dollars and hours invested in their training and experience. They’ve worked their way up from the bottom, with low pay and unfavorable working conditions most of the way. And only a handful will ever achieve the high pay you’d think would come at the end of the dues-paying process.
I’m fortunate enough to have two jobs, so I never have to depend entirely on helicopter pilot pay to cover my living expenses. Still, that tour pilot job in Hawaii remains beyond my reach — until I get another 650 hours of turbine time…
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PLEASE EMAIL ME ALL THE NEW INFORMATION IM INTERSTED OF BEING A COMERCIAL PILOT BUT IM OLNY 14 YEARS OLD
Gabe! Show some initiative! Do your own research! The world will appreciate you more. Learn to spell or use spell check! DON”T SCREAM IN ALL CAPS! Ms.Langer might be more predisposed to acknowledge your comments favorably.
Consider becoming an army warrant officer/pilot.
Good Luck!
I’m thinking of starting at a school called “Silver state helicopters” in ft. Lauderdale, FL. They tell me the demand for helicopter pilots is on the rise and that a helicopter pilot can make up to 100k a year in a few years. They are almost guaranteeing everyone who attends a job as a CFI when they graduate making 25 an hour within 6 months of graduation. Email me with any help. Also…..do you think the demand for pilots is as much as they are making it seem?
Do I think a pilot can make up to $100k a year in a few years?
No. Definitely not. I challenge you to find ANY helicopter pilot making anywhere NEAR $100K within “a few” (three? four?) years of beginning his/her training. Perhaps you should challenge THEM to find such a pilot. I know guys who have been flying for ten or more years — EMS, long line, utility, you name it — and NONE of them are making anything close to that.
Up to $50K in a few years? Maybe.
Up to $30K in a few years? Likely.
The only reason demand for heli pilots is on the rise is because all the Vietnam era pilots are retiring now. But guess who’s coming to take their places? All the Iraq I and Iraq II war pilots. And if an employer has a choice between a vet and a recent Silver State graduate, who do you think he’s going to pick?
As for that $25/hour as a CFI, is that 40 hours a week with benefits? Better ask. Because if ALL their grads are becoming CFIs, they’re likely to have more CFIs than they need to meet their needs. That means lots of folks are only working part time. Can you live on $25/hour if you’re only working 20 hours a week and have to pay for your own medical expenses?
My advice: post your questions in a real helicopter pilot forum. There are lots of folks there who can give you feedback. Don’t rely on me. Sometime I’m too cynical for my own good.
But sometimes — just sometimes — I know what I’m talking about.
I’m at the 3800 Total helicopter time, mostly turbine, and 9900 total time (add in airplanes). I was militarily trained, so I entered this field without debt. I’ve been flying 24 years now.
I can fly EMS and start at $55k benefitted (although some companies my give me locational increases due to higher costs of living — $67500)
I can fly Gulf of Mexico and start at 65k benefitted, and get some bonuses, etc. here and there — have never worked the Gulf, so I have to enter at the entry level they say, but the above salary is a bit off the bottom of the scale.
I can go corporate and get 85k benefitted, but have no fixed schedule and essentially belong to the corporate bosses without the ability to make longer term plans with family.
I will never get wealthy doing this job. I live frugally, so it works out. I, like everyone I know in this industry, do it because even though it is a job, it tickles me to have this much fun and call it work.
It is a great career, but not if your goal is financial gain. In terms of job security….yes, if the economy continues the way it does, the Gulf and EMS worlds will definately need lots more pilots. ENG seems to be growing too. It feels like the best time in my flying career to be starting out as a helicopter pilot. If it is what you want to do — do it!
The best paying jobs in helicopter are logging on heavy aircraft or seismic operations. Like the previous post this can take a toll on your personell life. In the pacific northwest, Canada you will makew 120000 to 170000 Canadian. which right now is pretty much the same as U.S dollars. It,s not an easy job. I know I,ve been a helicopter pilot for 30 years.
if no body hire pilot with 200h comercial licence, how I can star my career if no one give the 1 oportunity. the invertiment total arond 55.0000 or mor, .
what I do if I do not want to be CFI to get 1000h?.
same company have a programa entry level to hire co-pilot to get h/fly and expirience?
I don’t think the Mesa police aviation unit gets much for 50k. They are a bunch of nuts. See the Fox news blog and if you only have a short time to read (there is a lot on the blog) just read the timeline. If you are a doubting Thomas you may need to do some investigation but believe me 50K is more than the current pilots flying for the Mesa aviation unit deserve.
http://community.myfoxphoenix.com/blogs/myfreespeech34
I’m currently employed as a professional driver. I have a service business of my own which I’m attempting to build also. I also have a blog board at http://www.mekbusiness.com (honest passion forum board).
I’m looking into the helicopter pilot career field. I did a lot of flying in the military and I love to fly.
I’m curious, has anyone ever heard of Silver State Helicopters? Are they reputable?
Also, how is someone to payback an $80K loan at 19% on an entry level salary of 30K/year? That’s a freakin’ house payment each month without having a house! My “off-the-cuff” figuring say’s that equates to about $800 a month for 20-30 years!
I’d like input of both successes and failures in this career, especially those who financed their own schooling.
Thank you.
Martin.
19%!!!
I’m glad to see SOMEONE out there is doing the math. Unfortunately, your “off the cuff” calcs are pretty far off. Using Excel, I calculated $1271 per month over 30 years — if they give you that long to pay. That’s a total of $457K. Ouch!
Yes, $80K is a lot of money and 19% is obscene. Beware of promises of $80-100K/year jobs — it really DOES take a lot of experience and the right attitude and training (beyond the flight school) to get a job like that.
Are you sure about the 19%? I can’t believe ANYONE would be crazy enough to sign up for that.
As for getting input from other helicopter pilots, I highly recommend helicopter pilot forums like the one on HelicoptersOnly.com.
Good luck and don’t sign on the dotted line until you do all your homework.
thanks so much for your honesty maria – i want to be a pilot too – it beats driving trucks as i do now – if you gotta work …
and what does richard mean by logging on heavy aircraft and seismic work – what exactly is that and what companies do it – thanks
“Logging” is using a helicopter to remove logs from a forest as part of a logging operation. It’s done with a long-line using large or “heavy” helicopters, like Bell 212s and larger. Seismic work usually requires towing equipment beneath a helicopter to get readings from the earth as you fly over it. But it could also involve working with geologists to land them in remote locations so they can do testing from the ground. Theseare the jobs you can make good money at, but you need specialized training and a lot of experience — thousands of hours sometimes. They’re difficult and usually dangerous jobs. There’s not much money at all in tour jobs and other entry-level jobs.
I am interested in getting my pilot’s license and expect to start working, like you did, for a tour company in the Grand Canyon. What I want to know is, what should I expect as starting pay? How much will that pay increase in the first 2 to 4 years? What is the schedule like? Four days on, three days off? The problem is that the schools tell you you’ll make good money (45k/yr.) but they have alterior motives. The tour companies won’t even talk to me since I don’t yet have my license. I don’t know if I want to get my license and pay 70-80k at a school for a job that only pays 30k or less with little possibility of advancement (or very slow advancement). I haven’t been able to find specific info on salaries for tour companies in the Grand Canyon online. All tour company salaries are just lumped together and vary from website to website. You worked there so I thought you might know… Also, ultimately I’d like to work EMS. Where would I begin to get all the requirements fulfilled? I’m asking you these things because I really like your down-to-earth approach on this subject and you don’t have anything to gain by jading your answers. Thanks.
When I worked at the Grand Canyon in 2004, the starting rate was about $95/day PLUS $15/hour flight time. So if you showed up as scheduled, you got $95. If you flew 4 hours, you got another $60. You could expect to fly an AVERAGE of 4 hours a day during the busiest part of the season. So that’s $155/day.
We had a choice for a schedule: 7/7 or 4/3. I took 7/7 because I went home to another job on my 7 off.
So let’s do the math. If you work a 7/7 schedule, you could make $1,085 per week. But you’re working every other week. So that averages to only half that: $542.50. In six months (the length of the season), that’s only about $14K. Even if you worked all year round and still managed to average 4 hours of flight time a day (not likely in the dead of winter), you’d still be making just $28K. Deduct taxes and the cost of housing up there and you’re not left with very much.
Since then, of course, pilot pay has changed. I heard it went to a fixed daily rate no matter how much you fly. I don’t know what that rate is now, but can it be much more than it was?
But people don’t work there to make money. They work there to build time and to get VERY valuable experience. High density altitude, high winds, low visibility — throughout a season, you’ll see it all. You really can’t get much better experience than that.
If you flew as much as you could — taking flights from pilots who didn’t want to fly to bump your daily average up — you could build 500 hours of turbine time in a season. That’s enough to use as a stepping stone to go elsewhere and fly for better pay. That’s what most people had in mind. Flying someplace like the Grand Canyon is part of the dues paying process the flight schools don’t tell you about.
As for EMS, other than turbine time, the big requirement is night flying. Get as much of that as you can. A job in Vegas might be helpful — they do strip tours every night. I heard the pay’s better, too, but they usually want some turbine time before they hire you. Not exactly entry level, but not far from it. EMS pays reasonably well, but it’s not for everyone. I think it was Rotor and Wing that had an excellent article written by an EMS pilot about the experience; it’s worth tracking down and reading if you’re considering an EMS position down the road.
You’re not going to make $45K/year as a helicopter pilot within 3 to 5 years of getting your commercial. And if you’re not a good pilot who’s willing to take a lot of bull at those entry level positions, you’ll never get the experience you need to go beyond them.
If you want to be a helicopter pilot because you want to make a lot of money, you’ll be very disappointed.
Flying helicopters is cool but when you start flying passengers for hire, it’s also a huge responsibility. You have to follow the rules set forth by your employer and regulatory agencies. (Flying at the Grand Canyon, for example, involves flying only two very specific routes every day all season.) You and your company are responsible for the safety of your passengers. You’re responsible for operating the aircraft in a safe and POH-compliant manner. It’s a job like any other job, with a demanding employer and lots of other pilots out there wanting to do what you do.
The purpose of my blog post was to point out that helicopter pilots have an uncommon skill that cost them a small fortune to get. I think they should be paid more.
But the more pilots there are, the less each one is worth. If you’re not willing to work for $155/day, there’s always someone else who is. Anyone with a decent amount of time in the pilot seat can fly tours at the Grand Canyon. Everyone wants to because it’s a good way to build time. So pay is relatively low and the pilots just deal with it. They’re still paying their dues.
Once you get a lot of good experience or training you move beyond all that, where you’re in demand because you can do something that few others really can. Long line? Logging? Fire suppression? North Sea? Heavy equipment? Now you’re talking. That’s where the money is.
Read all the comments for this post. You’ll get more insight.
Make the right decision for your future.
Great article and feedback. I too have been interested in becoming a helicopter pilot enticed by all the comercials. I’m not expecting to get rich, but I do want to make sure I can get a job someday if I go thru with all the training. I live in New Hampshire and am pretty dedicated to staying in this area (in New England anyway). Based on the research I have done so far, a large majority of the helicopter pilot jobs I’ve seen advertised are not in my area. Is this generally the case? I hear that the demand for pilots is on the rise, but what about in the northeast area?
Any information you could give me on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
Guys – I am a Police Officer for a VERY large city. I am thinking of trying out for the Air Unit, to the tune of about 45 grand out of pocket, and a pay cut (More OT in the Detective Division). My base, as a 15 year vet, is @ 75K. The money is for being a big city, vested cop first, and a pilot second (or is it the other way around? )
Anyway – I was wondering if there are any other LEOS on here — how much turbine time do you think I will get flying for the department in the next 15 years ? Assuming a 6 day work week, 3 shifts per day – 24/7 ?
Will I be marketable upon retirement ?
I would love a career flying in a helicopter and not all that concerned about the pay, since $155 a day is still a lot better than even my best paid job at Media Monitors, where I sat at a computer terminal listening to radio station commercials, sometimes transcribing two AM radio stations simultaneously, as was the case in New York and Los Angeles. This is a tremendous skill that would get me hired as an airborne traffic reporter, since I would learn to pick up audio cues on when to speak for which radio station.
I will look into flight schools not only in Arizona and Nevada but across the country, even in my own hometown of Indianapolis. I would love being airborne all day long, wearing only a t-shirt, jean shorts and my best pantyhose while eventually serving passengers on Grand Canyon and Vegas strip flights with enough turbine time. As Batwoman, flying a copter would give me more time to get to the scene of the crime than being stuck in traffic in the Batmobile, especially if I live in Los Angeles. (I intend to pursue a Master’s degree in criminal justice at IUPUI.) It is a thrill that surpasses any financial gain.
I came across your blog site and have become very aware of the ripoff flight schools which guarantee $100k salary in just a few years. Unfortunately, the economy is in such sorry shape because too many Americans want something for nothing; and we are just now feeling the consequences with the housing market bottoming out as well as rising inflation, which experts believe will become full-blown hyperinflation when the Federal Government goes into default on its national debt, as happened recently in Brazil and Argentina. Americans refuse to listen to acerbic comments regarding the general state of their country’s plight from politicians; that’s why there are no Simon Cowells out there running for President.
As a helicopter woman, it always helps to be informed. Bat-regards for a wonderful site! Mazel tov!
It’s amazing to me how many people have commented on this post since I wrote it almost a year ago. Please remember that I am not an expert — I’m just a somewhat seasoned helicopter pilot commenting on what I’ve experienced and what I see. You want more feedback? Try the forums on sites like JustHelicopters.com. (Don’t waste your time at rotor.com or some of those “members only” sites.)
Right now, I’m in the process of looking for a summer job, preferably in Alaska. What I’m finding is that there’s a huge glut of entry level pilots all looking for turbine jobs to jump start their careers. And there are only three entry level job markets of any size: Grand Canyon, Alaska, and the Gulf of Mexico.
There are two problems with this:
1) Because there are so many pilots who qualify for these entry-level positions, employers are offering low starting salaries. And guess what? People are taking the jobs anyway. These people are desperate to work.
2) Because my experience level isn’t that far above entry level requirements — I have just under 2000 hours, including only 350 of turbine time — and I’m not as desperate as my competition, I may be unable to get a job that’s a good fit for me financially.
Very depressing all around.
Fortunately, I’m not desperate for work. But I feel bad for the guys who are — the guys who have been working at this for 2 or 3 years and are wondering where that $80K job is.
I spoke with Silver State yesterday. The commercials got to me as well. As I researched I found .. there were plenty of jobs out there but they required at least 1500 hrs and some turbo time. In addtion, they preferred Bells and SK’s ( I guess they are bigger than the training R- 22 ’s). Average person works a 40 hr week which equals 2,080 hours a year. With weather and scheduling .. it could take 3-7 years to get 3000 hrs of flight time.
I know.. I am babbling. All of this is to say.. after 18 months I will not be make 100,000 a year.
Reality really is a pain in the rear.. I like the commercials better.
Jay, it isn’t THAT dismal. You’ll need 1,000 hours for an entry-level job — not 1,500. (At least not yet; I expect that number to go up as more pilots enter the workplace.) You can probably build that time within 2 years if you stay employed s a CFI.
Some entry-level employers will take you without turbine time and you can get the turbine time there. 500 hours of that — which you can build in just one season at the Grand Canyon — will open other doors for you.
But yes: after 18 months, you will definitely NOT be making $100K a year as a helicopter pilot. In fact, the chances of you making that within 5 or 6 years is very slim.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if you’re thinking about becoming a helicopter pilot because you want to make a lot of money, think again. Flying because you like the work; not because you expect to cash in as a pilot.
Good luck!
Thanks Maria..as a newbie… things were looking a little bleak. Thanks again.
I am fortunate enough to be both a police officer and a pilot and am now able to fly for my police department. It required a significant investment on my part to get my initial training but now I’m flying a police ‘car’ instead of driving one.
Maria is absolutely right! Though promising, the market for helicopter pilot jobs is an elusive one. High time and other experience makes finding a job difficult and insurance requirements are only making it harder.
Don’t take this as discouragement! If you want to fly, learn how! Fly airplanes for some of your experience (it’s cheaper than helicopters and some of the hours will count toward certain licensing requirements).
As for Silver State Helicopters, as of this writing they’ve shut down operations nationwide and filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. This means that all their students are left high and dry (nice, huh?). I researched my flight school VERY carefully including contacting former students before I selected it. I wound up 1500 miles from home in Florida to take advantage of their weather and $$.
Good luck and happy flying!
To expand on Chris’s notes about Silver State, Monday Feb 4th 2008 Silver State filed Chapter 7 and is planning on filing Chapter 11 or so the Owner Jerry Airola is claiming. The fact of the matter is that Silver State, was never an acreddited school. I am a Graduate of Silver State, and I am having a very hard time finding work as a CFI due to the Industry Bias towards SIlver State, and it grads….. The facts are that I passed all of my FAA exams with a score of 94% or better, and passed all of my Check rides with flying colors. The schooling I received was poor at best. The Instructors at Silver State, were dilligent Instructors, and all will remian good friends of mine, but the management, was very poor, and basically left us ( the Students) to fend for ourselves. As of this writing I am off this evening to a meeting with about 150 fellow students who are starting a class action suit for breach of contract! I like many others quit my job of 17 years only to find out Monday that I had no job to go to. For the facts about Jerry Airola go to http://www.swiftchoppers.com, and let yourself be entertained by his manipulations, and lies!
Good luck to those of you looking for jobs as about 600 CFI’s from Silver State are now Job shopping the Market. So there is obviously a glut of unemployed pilots out there now! That means the Pay scale will probably take a nose dive..Gee thanks Jerry not only has he ruined a few thousand peoples credit, but he has put an undue burden on the industry. Almost 3000 students went through at a cost of 65,000 to 70,000 each and about 60 % drop out of each class group, but that is what he wants to have happen. Jerry Charges full price even if you only take a few classes or flights!
I wish all of you well, and I hope you find the Flight school that works for each of you, I will see you in the skies
Good Luck
I am getting ready to start my Rotary commercial pilots program in oregon. I’ve been battling with whether or not to just go through my pilots training, or, do it more slowly with an associates of aviation science. the down fall is that it takes about two years to achieve your Private license doing it with a degree.
Does any one have information on the Viability of Degreed Vrs. Non-degreed pilots? Further more, any outside information on Hillsboro Aviation would be helpful too. so far i have not heard anything bad about them.
Hi Maria,
U have mentioned that u purchased a helicopter to built your flying time. Have u looked/compared it to renting a helicopter for the same purpose?
ThanX, Yuki
Yuki, no, I didn’t. I bought a helicopter to fly, not specifically to build time. I had no reason to check rental rates as I was never interested in renting.
Yuki, Renting is a viable way to build time, but it is very difficult to find places that will rent Helicopters. An R22 will usually rent for anywhere from $200-$450 per hour. This is the reason that most everyone will become a CFI. That way after you have completed your 200 hours of training, then you can teach others, and actually get paid to fly, instead of paying to fly. To be qualified to teach in an R22, SFAR 73 of part 61 of the FAR’s states you must have 200 hours of flight time. You can however teach at 175 hours, in other types of Helicopters, once you have received your CFI or CFII. The reality is that most schools use the R22 because of operational cost’s. Keep in mind that a good used R22 or other airworthy helicopters will run $100,000 or more to purchase. Renting in the long run is much cheaper. Good Luck Yuki!
ThanX Paul. Since, I am not going to be able to quite my full time job (can’t support the family as a CFI), I’ll most likely, go with the renting option. I probably work something out with my school.
ThanX again, Yuval
Hi! I’d like to know if any of you have heard about a School called “Helicopter Academy”. They have branches in several cities. They have a lot of merchandising, and that usually scares me a bit.
I just want to know if they are reliable, well-accepted by employers. I anyone has a story, experience with them I’ll be glad to hear about.
Thanks!
I was reading over all these post and find it interesting to see. I have become interested in flying helicopters in the last 2 years and have logged a few hours,but lack the money to finish,but am still seeking ways to fly. I’m 39 years old and question some times if i’m too late to do this or should I do this?
I agree with an above post mentioning the lazy people in this country and thinking 100k a year is the key to success. I will comment that I think I actually have a few advantages rather than disadvantages with my age. First being now I’m more mature and responsible than say a younger pilot and I have experienced life more and cherish and respect it more seeing I have a 8 year old daughter. Second I see the main concerns on here as money! I with no doubt feel that an alliance to some degree is in order for all pilots especially after we have spent a small gold mine trying to get certified. This is very similar as to truck driver pay. These trucking schools are usually a scam and they put near anyone behind the wheel and set them off across country for about 500 bucks a week. Then you have the proven 20 year truck drivers that are making 100k a year as does my brother in law,but he paid the price and it’s his desire to drive a truck. Third I owned a business once and figured out it’s not all about the money it’s about being who you are and what will make you the best person. Now back to the most common question on this thread is the money. I see also that college now alone is going to set you back 50k if I decided to finish my degree in what ever? So, really the training as for helicopter pilot isnt so out of the norm for a career and I would with out a doubt rather be a low paying entry level pilot than a low paying entry level Manager at Jiffy Buger any day! Also I live in a small town where the middle class went to local community college and the poor went to work in a factory and the rich went to a University or took over the family owned business! I know after reading 100’s of articles on this subject, that you can find a decent paying entry level job after 1,000 hours around 40/50 k per year and all honesty thats much more than any factory pays in my area and they work like slaves and treated even worse, or better yet they move the company at a minutes notice to Mexico and you find yourself in a mess quickly. Flying to me has many more advantages than just the money and I’m seeing more and more Good flight schools paying better for instruction than once before and the learning and flexibility of a Helicopter pilot and the ability to share what you do or have seen far out ways the money and certainly the inside of a factory wall putting a screw in the same hole for 30 years. Bottom line is a helicopter pilot that just keeps looking for the big bucks really shouldnt be a pilot at all as his mind isnt focused on the importance of what he does and the unique skills he has. The satifaction I get when I tell people I’m a helicopter pilot is way more satisfaction than the money and 50k a year is a good salary seeing most only work half the year.
Hey there Access:
I hear where you are coming from and you are completely right about many of your points, as far as the schooling costs, and the level of pay an so forth. Points to consider, I was in your boat, when I started flight school. First of all kiss your time with your family ie; Daughter … good bye! You should be flying at least 3-4 times each week at two hours per round, anything less is futile. Plus a longer flight on the weekend. Plus doing ground school at a real ground schoolwill take up 3-4 nights each week, not to mention study time! So now fit your work into that equation! Oh and then fit the family in too. As you see there is not much time left , if you chose to be a career pilot. Next realistcially the cost to get to CFI or CFII is between 56,000 and 1oo,ooo for the complete education, Tack on another 6-9thousand for the College degree from UVSC the cheap way to go! You get the Idea. Oh and when you are getting ready to take your CFI check ride, figure on 2-3 months of full time study and practice teaching in front of friends and enemies until they are either bored with learning about helicopters, or you have just plain pissed them off! The practice teaching is critical!
Okay now it is time to find a job! well after Silverstate helicopters went out of business the market was hit with about 900 Full time CFI’s , and about 2700 Students soon to be CFI’s. Most of whom are job shopping the heli market. all of whom have more hours than you will when you pass your CFI Checkride. Are you getting the picture? I am a CFI in Southern California, and for a while I was volunteering my time with the local displaced SSH students, to log time, and get them through their checkrides. But times have been tough. Follow your passion, but beware the pitfalls, the fixed wing industry has a lot more openings right now, and that is not saying much with all of the airlines closing up shop! Good luck to you!
Paul aka Jetcopterpilot!
HEEE, I agree, but my daughter doesnt bother my situation for the time being, I’m divorced and beg to see her as it is… You know the Bad Dad thing!!
As for ME and only me My life is at a time where it needs complete and total overhaul and living out my life is a Must! I’m ex Army and have the knowledge,experience and discipline I did not have years ago. I certainly understand your reply and in no means strike it as negative or bias to me or any other persons in my same situation.
However, Me personally, I feel at what ever age or level of difficulty you should follow your desires.
I too many years back was a victim of a ITT school and graduated with the best of the best, only to be left with an EXtremely over priced bill to pay and never came close to a career in electronics only a broken dream and thousands in debt. This is where I seperate the out come of all the money from that school, and now and most certainly Silver State…..Just another ITT as far as I see it. I have flown with some SS Pilots both CFI’S and once Students and ,most certainly they are SCREWED!….But the ones that havent LIED about hours are MOST certainly the ones that will be the next GEN of this industry…..As IN integrity,passion,murals and ethics. Anyone can learn to fly, but only qaulity can stay afloat…Shit sinks just like Silver State and any Bad Pilot that lies about hours….. Once again its about the Man and Machine not the Man…Truth willl always Win
How true Access! The cream floats to the top! The reality of it all right now, and my point which you seem to be missing here simply put is, that there is such a glut of Quality pilots that did survive the Nightmare known as SSH trying to fight for positions. You as a FUTURE CFI will be competing with a very large contingent, of QUALIFED with real hours pilots, that have 500 -1500 hours as CFI’s. You as a newby with 150-200 hours will not get the job because the INSURANCE companies want pilots with 300 plus hours, or in most cases at least 1200-1500 hours. It most definitely is not a case of desire, I don’t debate your desrire, nor do I question it. I am a Qualified CFI with many hours. I have had Many DPE’s comment on how talented, and qualified I am as a Pilot, and I have had reference letters written by many of them, to testify to that fact. But the market is top heavy right now with pilots, and you have to take a hard look at the reality of that fact. Now with the FAA considering raising the minimum hours to teach in a Robinson up to 300 hours, well consider having to buy another 100 hours at say $250 per hour. I don’t know how old you are but think about this if you are an employer, are you going to hire a 200 hour CFI that is 25, or a 200 hour CFI that is 40, sure the older CFI will probably be more responsible, but who will be around longer as a pilot? It is in reality a very tough Industry, I see students come and go, but we all have to be realistic, there is a glut of pilots and not a glut of jobs, also thanks to SSH there is a glut of Robinson aircraft now up for auction which you can be sure is affecting Frank Robinson, and his wonderful people 1200 strong working at KTOA to build a fantastic product for us to fly. Keep also in mind that the Student Loan Industry has taken a hard hit due to the sub-prime lenders, and also the SSH debacle, which has made it very tough for anyone looking to get a student loan of any type right now to get into the Aviation Industry. My son also a Pilot, is a Student at Embry Riddle, and the enrollment there has fallen off, because so few are qualifying for the loans needed to pay the unreal amount that the tuition is currently. And those ERAU grads always snatch up the top jobs in the Industry due to the Prestige that their diploma carries. I admittedly don’t know your situation, but it seems to me youhave chased a dream before, and had your hopes dashed, just make sure that you are not repeating past history due to bad timing! Good luck in your endeavors, and many happy years of flying I wish upon you. But look at it realisticly, you seem like a good guy! Your daughter deserves, a dad that is a good example., and leads by example. Take care my friend!
Access,
I started flying in my late 30s and got my commercial ticket when I was 39. Unlike most other helicopter pilots, I didn’t build time as a CFI. I was fortunate enough to have enough money to buy an R22 and build time in that. I was 43 when I got my first pilot job (other than in my own commercial business). Although the flying was great and I learned a lot of new skills, as an older, mature person, I found it extremely difficult to “fit in” with the young men I worked with. You’d think my employer would be pleased to have more mature people on its staff, but it wasn’t. It wanted those young guys with few life experiences. They were desperate for the hours and could be pushed around a lot easier than the few older pilots on staff who knew better.
As for people who lie about hours — you can’t lie about skills. Every job interview includes a check flight. While there are 500-hour pilots who fly like 1,500-hour pilots, there are also 1,500-hour pilots who fly like 500-hour pilots. Hour requirements are mostly to satisfy insurance requirements. But if you lack basic flying skills — due to poor training or sloppiness — you’re not going to be hired for any job.
Paul is right: there are too many new pilots vying for too few pilot jobs. This is the legacy of Silver State, which was cranking out pilots into a saturated market. Silver State did the industry a disservice by luring in pilots with false promises. The $80K jobs are few and far between and it’s unlikely that a pilot will get one until he’s got 5,000 or more hours in a wide range of missions and equipment. And since there are so many pilots available for those entry level jobs, pay has actually decreased.
Example: I turned down a job in Alaska this summer that paid only $2500/month for 6 10-hour days a week. That’s only about $10/hour! And that job was for a 2,000 hour pilot! If you think you can build 240 hours a month in a job like that, think again. Most of those duty hours will be spent sitting around, waiting for flights to come up — or waiting for weather to clear. You’ll be lucky to fly 10-20 hours a week. With more than half of that eaten up by living expenses, it would be a long, lean season.
Right now, there are hundreds of low-time private, commercial, and even CFI pilots spit out by the SSH demise. The lucky ones have enough hours and skills to get CFI or entry level flying jobs. The others are struggling to finish their ratings and get work that’ll build time. Do you want to join them? I know I wouldn’t.
My advice: if you really, really want to fly helicopters, learn in your spare time. Then either buy or go into a partnership with other pilots for an R22 or R44 (or something similar) and fly that for fun. Or rent, if you have to. It’s how I started and, in my case, it did lead to a career path.
And for the record, although my flying business earns enough money to cover all of my flying costs, I still have another job. I don’t think I’ll ever get to the point where I can simply fly for a living and maintain my current lifestyle, so I’ll always have two jobs.
Hello,
Do helicopter pilots experience any short term or long term hearing damage?? If you could only hear out of one ear would your ability to get a job be hindered?? Thanks for your time!
Shane, good questions!
Any pilots of small aircraft, including helicopters, will definitely experience some kind of hearing loss if they don’t wear good quality active noise cancellation (ANC) headsets. I wear Bose and they really help a lot. But even with those on, I notice that my hearing is temporarily impaired after a very long flight. If I depended on headsets without that protection, with 2,000+ hours of flight time, I’d probably be mostly deaf by now.
As fas employment goes, I guess that depends on your ability to pass an FAA medical — which includes a hearing test. I think it’s important to be able to hear on the side of the aircraft’s door — in my case, the right side — when starting up. I normally leave that door open and that cup of my headset off as I start up and warm up so I can clearly hear any weirdness in the engine. It works, too! I recently did my warm-up on one mag and definitely noticed the difference in engine sound.
Shane- as long as you can pass the FAA physical you can fly, and or work. I had a partner, and friend who was a fellow CFI, and now is doing charter flights, and part 135 commercial work, with almost complete hearing loss. He used a specially boosted Dave Clark ANR headset , with his hearing aides. We communicated quite well when we were working together, although on startup I quite often could hear myself coming through on his headset, like an echo.
And yes Maria I always start up with my headset off to listen for missfires, or bearing squeals. Some pilots put on the little foam earplugs under their headsets, such as the Bose ANR Headset, and that helps with the exterior noise, but it means boosting the Bose up really loud which wreaks havoc on the speakers. Good luck and keep flying!
Hello all, I’m going for my commercial in September and recently talked to my flight school about entry level jobs and I brought up becoming a CFI as a first job. They said i would most likely start on a ground crew then when the company adjusted to my work ethic they would start giving me flight hours also they said one of the first jobs would probably be co-pilot on a logging helicopter. Nothing at all was brought up about Becoming CFI, is this different because i live in Canada?
The flight school I’m attending is Chinook helicopter school based out of Abbotsford B.C, if there any other Canadian pilots reading this or any that went to that particular school any info on entry level jobs would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks everyone for the insightful comments and observations. I am about to enlist in the military (Army pilot -Australian Army-SSO Officer candidate) Good luck to all of you looking for work! Any comments on potential work for ex-World military turbine pilots will be appreciated..although that would not be until about 2016 or so for me-at least!…I just think putting my head down and bum up for a decade or so will put me in an employable position post military…all you vets-I would love to hear your thoughts on my planning! Semper Fide!!!! Paul.
hey maria,
you mentioned (over a year ago!) you wanted to hear from women working in the gulf. i just quit a job after almost two years flying there and am now starting to look for another job. i was making pretty good money, almost $70k last year but i flew my butt off (flight pay), stayed offshore (offshore pay), and a customer paid bonus made my base salary much more than most working in the gulf.
if you’d like to dish, email me
also, are you a WG?
Wow – that’s so dis-heartening. I took a discovery flight over the weekend and loved it! But after reading everyone’s post’s here it’s looking very bleak for the heli pilot industry. I thought I could do better than what I’m currently making and do something that I’d really enjoy doing, but it seems as tho reality is a different story.
Time to look at another profession. Thanks for the reality check.
Hi everyone,
I was wondering what is happening to all the SSH pilots that are out there? Are they having a hard time finding a job (because of SSH), or are they able to move on with their career?
I was with them for almost 2 years, and graduated from them. I was on salary that seems now to be higher than most other teaching positions. I have since moved on and fly natural gas pipeline leak detection, but am still in Robinsons (though it is a 44 and I am the only one who flies it). I am trying to get into the “entry level” positions in the gulf, but am having a hard time getting anyone to contact me after submitting a resume. Any suggestions. I have about 1150 TT with just four hours in a 206.
It was gret reading all the posts.
hey hovercarl,
have you contacted PHI? i know they are hiring with 1000 tt and they fly 206’s so the interview flight wouldn’t be as intimidating. Rotorcraft is also hiring but they don’t have the best reputation concerning mx. (this may have changed and you can always move to another company once you’ve got some offshore time) Era might hire you as an SIC but the pay is a lot less than what you’d make as VFR Captain elsewhere. check on Jsfirm for the details for PHI and Rotorcraft and don’t be afraid to call them and get the ball rolling. also, if you’re in the area, a drop-by isn’t always a bad idea. it’s harder to say no to someone when they’re right in front of you.
good luck!
I agree with Stacia. You apparently have to be “in their face” to get an interview at some of these companies. Call them to follow up; offer to refax your resume if they don’t have it in front of them. Stopping by is the best thing you can do. Good luck!
i was once in the HR office at my last company and one of the assistants had a STACK of resumes, it was the ones she had deemed not worth calling. at the big companies, it’s not the chief pilot going through the resumes, its HR and sometimes they’re just not sure what they’re looking at, no offense meant, they just aren’t pilots. that’s why having your resume handed to the CP by a current employee that you may know will usually get you an interview. with every company nowadays, it seems, just getting the right person to look at your resume is the biggest challenge.
From experience, I think you’re right. I sent two resumes to a tour company years ago and got nowhere. But when I friend of mine who used to work there called on my behalf, I got the interview and the job.
Visiting is helpful, too. I was in Alaska for an interview with a tour company this March. On a whim, I called another tour company that I’d already sent resumes to. I told them that since I was “in the area” I wanted to stop by to check out their operation. What I got was an interview and an invitation for a second interview at their HR location. I didn’t follow up (for various reasons), but I’m pretty confident that I could have gotten the job if I had.
That’s what I mean by being “in their face.”
Maria,
Great information! If I may ask where did you purchase your R22? Did you buy new or used? As I mentioned elsewhere, I have all my rating and now just need to build time but alas there are “limited” opportunities here.
-Mark
I bought it used. It had 168 hours on it and was in mint condition. (Want to hear something weird? As I was typing this, the guy who bought that helicopter from me in 2004 called. I haven’t heard from him in years!)
If you already have your CFI, it’ll be a lot cheaper to build time by teaching. You can always rent a helicopter from the school to accelerate the process. Ownership isn’t for everyone. And most employers would prefer to see that you built time at a flight school rather than by tooling around in your own aircraft.
If you need R44 time, I’ve been selling time on cross-country flights with me in my aircraft. Will be flying with another CFI (300 hours) from Seattle to Las Vegas in about two weeks. He needs 30 hours in R44s and he’ll wind up building 20 of it with me for a lot less than renting.
Maria,
Anyway, I’d love to fly with anyone more experienced than I…needless to say, I’m interested in the time building offer and how it would work…if you want you can contact me off line to discuss the particulars please feel free.
Wow…that is weird….right out of the blue.
I actually looked into starting my own school here in the valley…we used to have 3 schools and are now down to 1
-Mark
All good information here!
Yes, for those entering this helicopter world, it is very rewarding, but it’s a lot of hard work too.
I’ve been teaching now for about 1.5 years, I have a total of about 820 hours and I am a CFI/CFII in Heli’s and a PVT in ASEL.
Maria is correct, it’s low pay and the hours can be anywhere from 3 to 20 hours a week. Of course you only do get paid for those hours you fly. Right now I’m down to just a couple of students and that’s not many hours per week. But as of lately, I’ve been lucky and have gotten to do some corn field pollination. It’s helped this week! I really do think it who you know in this type of work. I like learning and wish there were more SIC positions out there for low time guys like me to pick up. But everyone seems to want more hours….So you just have to keep ‘pluggin’ along!
I would eventually like to get into some seismic work or long line work…. in the MD500 . But I’m not sure how to progress in that direction…. So if anyone out there knows how to go that direction, I could sure use some info!
It seems like making the magic hour mark is next to impossible some days
I do have to say though, I enjoy teaching instruments the best. It’s exciting being able to see new students learn how to fly the heli by just referencing the instruments.
– Ty
Tys last blog post..A busier than normal week, Power Line Patrol and Corn Field Pollination
I am very happy to have found this thread. For the past 14 years I have had this dream in the back of my mind .
“learn to fly helicopters and then travel the world doing so” The money isn’t really that important
I just wanted to have a marketable skill for anywhere in the world . From what I’ve read here getting a loan isn’t the best way to go because it will weigh me down and I would probably have to work in the U.S.-good to know. So does anyone here have any personal experience flying/working out of the country ? I’m wondering if it’s even doable . Thanks
dave,
if your dream is to travel the world flying helicopters, i say go for it but try to talk to pilots who have gone before you. initially this was my goal, i wanted a career that could get me hired anywhere in the world. here’s what i’ve learned: as you progress in hours, try to get into a big company that does offshore work because it seems that is where most of the international flying is. you won’t be able to fly in other countries with your FAA ticket unless the company is American. get into flying twin engine/two pilot as soon as you can, most of the out of country stuff seems to be in 76’s or 412’s or the like, sometimes single pilot, but mostly twin. be prepared to work 4-6 weeks on and the same off. this can be tough if you have small kids or a wife, but it means you can live anywhere in the world because most of those companies include a RT ticket to your base location as a perk. be aware it could take 4-5 years or more before you find an international position. training is really expensive and getting even more so with the price of fuel so look into the school you’re thinking of very closely. find an instructor that wants to get you through as quickly as possible, not one that will milk you for hours. and if you aren’t happy with your instructor, don’t be afraid to change to another one. check out websites of international companies like evergreen to see what their requirements are. if you are able, going to heli-expo in feb (this year it’ll be in anahiem i think) is a good way to get to talk to people whom would otherwise not even take your call.
good luck!
Hey, I am an A&P mechanic. Getting into my prime of 40 and have been a mechanic for 2 years now. I was wondering if there would be an interest in a crass trained pilot/mechanic out there?
I had my discovery flight today, $500 for an r44! Seems a bit steep, right?
I’m interested in going to a flight school like bristow academy. Does anyone have any suggestions for schools, or info about bristow?
Mike, I really can’t say if the cost of your “discovery flight” was steep if I don’t know what it included. How many hours in the aircraft? How many hours on the ground? Did they show you any of the SFAR videos?
And why did you take the flight in an R44 rather than the usual training ship, an R22 or Schweitzer? Both are a lot cheaper to fly and more likely to be what you learn in.
My advice about flight schools is to avoid ANY school that requires you to join a program and pay the entire fee (or the entire fee in a few installments) up front. I’m sure a lot of former Silver State Helicopter students can tell you why. Pay for what you fly, not what they SAY you’ll get to fly.
Hi Mike
Blue Hill Helicopters in Norwood MA have all ex HAI (Bristow) graduates for instructors, they have a great reputation and more one on one that Bristow.
Helen
First off, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this post and all the great responses. It is hard to find good information among all the B.S. I recently graduated from the University of Arizona and was looking into becoming a career helicopter pilot. Does anyone know anything about Mazzei Flight School in Fresno, CA? I haven’t heard anything negative about it, so that makes me skeptical. I think I have it narrowed down to either that school or the Coast Guard if I can get into their pilot program.
Thanks everyone,
Mike
Mike,
While I can’t give you any advice on Mazzei Flight School…I will say this, if you can get someone else to foot the bill for flight training…by all means do so! Don’t discount the other branches…Air Force does quite a few S &R sorties and has the Pararescue branch. Army is probably your best chance, especially since you have your degree. Navy & Marines also fly rotorcraft. Keep your options open and best of luck.
I know that North Andover Flight Academy outside Boston Massachusetts offers their R-44 for $340/hr with no gimmicks. $390 dual isnt much more expensive than the local Schweizer school – for much more helicopter than a Schweizer! Don’t know why a 44 intro was $500.
Chris, $340/hour for an R44 rental is VERY CHEAP. I own one and I know my costs. I can tell you that at that rate, they’re not making much money. Are you sure they don’t charge extra for fuel? A lot of companies do, since the cost of fuel is so volatile.
I can see an R44 intro being $500 if it included at least 45 minutes of flight time and 45 minutes of ground time.
Hi Maria,
The $340/hr is a wet rate. It’s a 2004 Raven I, so it’s not brand new, but it has a Garmin 430 and plenty of power! I agree, their profit margin is slim, and with the price at $340, it’s in the neighborhood of the local Schweizer school ($330/hr for a Schweizer is a rip-off). Who would have thought that renting a 4 seat R-44 which cruises at 110, is almost the same price as an old 65 knot Schweizer? At Lawrence Airport KLWM , where the school is based, there are several R-44 helicopters privately owned. I think you will see more people starting to do primary training in the R-44. At $340/hr it makes sense…thank you.
Maria,
Have you heard of Advanced Helicopter Concepts? Their school is in Frederick, MD. I live in Baltimore and I am seriously considering taking the training. Any pilots in my area willing to give me solid advice? All the statistics i pulled up showed salaries at a $35,000 minimum except for CFI (20-35 per year) is this accurate? can i go from 0 hours to 1000 hours in a year realistically?
Yacov, I’m not familiar with that school. And I’m not quite sure what jobs have $35K minimum salaries. Most of the helicopter jobs I’ve seen start quite a bit lower — unless you have 2,000+ hours and a lot of it is turbine time.
Have you checked the job listings?
Yacov,
Maria is right that a lot of low-time pilot jobs start at less than $35k but what worries me more is your time line. did the school you’re looking into tell you you’d have 1000 hrs in the first year? starting with zero in training, it’ll take you about a year just to get your tickets with CFII. some schools can get you through in maybe 9 months but that’s pushing it. and to teach in a robbie, most places will require 300 hrs so making up the difference between what you leave your school with (at most 250 hrs) and the requirement can be tough. once you get a position as a CFI, if you are at a busy school, you’ll fly 40-80 hrs a month. now some schools are very busy and you’ll get to fly more than that but i’m being realistic. and most schools don’t pay a salary so if the weather’s bad for a week, or the heli is down for mx, you’ll earn less, so your income will be unreliable. it’ll probably take you another year maybe two to get to that magic 1000 hrs. count on 2 years at a minimum, making no money the first year. i worked full time during training and it took me 2 years to finish up to CFI. it took longer than the average but i have no training debt. once you’ve got the 1000 hrs, if you go to the gulf you might get a job offer and the starting pay is decent, over $50k plus bonuses etc. if you know the right people you might get into a SIC program in the gulf with 700-800 hrs and that pays ok for low time, about $40k. you will build time very slowly going that route though. any jobs out of the gulf start much lower and there’s a reason for that.
i am in no way trying to talk you out of training but you should be prepared for the down side. many silverstate students were quite surprised when they finished training with huge debt and that $80k job promised in the seminar was completely nonexistent. go look at the school, ask about maintenance, look at the aircraft. make sure you can pay-as-you-go. some places will require $2k blocks and that’s pretty reasonable, especially if it gets you a discount. after your first lesson, go get your medical/student lic. this is important because if you fail the medical all the money you’ve spent on training has been a waste. and unless you’re independently wealthy or married to someone with a good job, be prepared to be poor for a while. if you’re young and stick with it, you could be making $80k (corporate) by the time you’re 30 but if you want to have a life outside of work, you’ll earn less. this is not a career to get rich with.
fly safe
I am currently 18 years of age and still at school in South Africa. My dream is to become a helicopter pilot outside of South Africa, preferebly in the US. My parents will not be able to offer any financial support.
Is my goal realistic at all?
Hi Maria! Just a shout out to say I appreciate your blog. My husband is young in his career as a helicopter pilot (at the fabulously young age of 40!), and will just be reaching his first “hurdle” of 1,000 hours by the end of this month. Anywho, your blog has been helping me understand a little of what he’s been through to get where he is at, and what it might take to get where he wants to go. :0) It may not be easy, and at times has been dangerous (he recently lost a good friend who he trained with to a heli-crash two weeks ago), but its in his blood, so, what’s a girl to do? At least I know he is super careful so I take comfort in that.
Anywho, thanks for your “insight.” I think its really awesome to know what you want to do, and go after it, despite the mountains you all have to “summit” to get there.
Thanks, Jess. Sometimes I really do need some positive feedback to keep me motivated and writing.
I got my private certificate at age 39 and my commercial at age 40. “Friends” of mine who had careers in fixed-wing aviation told me I was “too old” to make a living at it. I’m actively working on proving them wrong. If I had a pilot job (rather than my own helicopter charter company), I’d certainly be making a living. My way is a bit tougher, but also rewarding.
My point is, 40 is not too old to get started in a career as a pilot. If your husband is a good, safe pilot and he proves himself to be a mature and responsible adult (which the 22-year-olds often can’t do), he’ll get ahead. Tell him to keep at it, take it one step at a time, and build the skills he wants to get his dream job. He’ll succeed.
Best of luck to both of you!
Stefan, it’s unbelievably expensive to learn to fly helicopters. Without financial support, learning on a part-time basis can take years. That’s not necessarily a bad thing.
You might consider the armed forces…perhaps they’ve got a helicopter pilot training program you can get into.
Good luck.
Jess, thanks for posting the question about age. I considered getting into flying helicopters when I was 45. Every school I talked to said I was to old to start and that I would never make my money back. I let them talk me out of doing it. I’m now 47 and recently talked to an instructor who said my age was not a problem.
Maria, I’m not looking to get rich flying. I would like to try and at least make it pay for itself. What do you think…is 47 too old? How much does size play into finding work? I’m not a giant by any means but 6′1 240lbs. I was told I was too big to fly as getting a job as a CFI would be hard and hard to build hours. Your views are greatly appreciated.
I’m sorry to confirm what others have told you, but you’re too big to get a job as a CFI. They normally won’t even consider guys who weigh more than 180. That’s because of the weigh limitations of small training helicopters like R22s. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it will definitely be tough.
Also, because of your size, you’ll need to train in a larger helicopter. That’ll cost you a lot more money — think $450/dual hour vs $250/dual hour.
Any chance you can drop a bunch of that weight? Get down to 200 lbs or so? You’d stand a much better chance of moving ahead in a career.
If you have lots of money, you can do what I did to build time — buy a helicopter and fly it all over the place. An R22 is perfect for this; maybe you can buy it with a partner to save some money. I never did get my CFI.
In any case, I’d recommend getting all your ratings before you turn 50. That’s a kind of magic age; if you don’t have experience before then, you’re not likely to be able to get a job.
Sorry for the bad news. Getting old sucks, doesn’t it? I’m also 47 now. And also very motivated to lose weight.
I’m sure I can lose a few pounds…lol but I think getting down to 200 would be almost impossible without contracting some local disease here in Iraq. At 215 I look like a stick man. I’ve considered buying an R22 for building hours. It makes sense but how much at my age?? I’m sure I could get my ratings before I turn 50 or at least I could dream about getting them by then. I’ll be done here by mid summer 2009 and will figure it out by then. Thanks for the input.
Whatever you decide, best of luck. Remember, you can always get your ratings and your own helicopter and try to start your own niche business. Mine’s doing okay — actually looking up a bit lately, but I’m not sure how long that will last with the economy in flux — and I’m fortunate enough to have other work to do to pick up the slack and earn some cash.
steve,
just a thought, if you have any small flight schools near you, you might be able to lease back an R22 to them and at least help defray the cost of your flying. there are good and bad things about it but one of my past students did that once he had his private lic. he bought a sc300cbi which has a seat limit of 300 lbs. he leased it back to the school i worked for and told me last feb he finally was breaking even and he was pleasure-flying for free. it took 10 months to break even but he’s in the throes of buying another one now. that might not work for you but it is always an option to explore.
I actually did a leaseback with my R22 as I went through my commercial training. I didn’t get the best deal from the flight school, but it did help me keep my helicopter costs covered.
Awesome site maria!
I stumbled onto your place amongst the internet while searching for entry level helicopter jobs. I was considering attending a community college near my home for a two year aviation degree in which I would receive my pvt. License for flying helicopters too….but I realized quickly that there are FEW entry level jobs for newbies. Your blog post confirmed my suspicion. I am already a Military Police soldier in the U.S. Army reserves…..so I know about flying for the army…and the sacrifices that go along with it.
After reading most of the comments on this post, I’m back to idea of re-enlisting in the army and going warrant officer to have the military pay for my training. Turbine training, night flying, and lot’s -0- hours flying while on deployment… and all the while getting paid for it. The only thing you have to sacrifice is…….your life and family. Great.
I know this may seem like a dumb question after reading your blog but I have to ask anyway……Are there any jobs out there that you know of that hire you and train you as a pilot. I want to fly so bad that I attempted to re-enlist in the Army but found out Im told old to go to WOFS. So im up against a brick wall. I live less than a mile from Bell Helio School and for the small sum of 64K I can get my license. There is no way I can afford to pay that kind of money and still pay the bills. Any help would be great.
Sorry, John, but I seriously doubt you’ll find someone to foot the bill for your training AND give you a job when there are so many of us out here who already have the training and experience to get the job done.
As most of the people who have commented here can attest, they have at least $50,000 into their commercial helicopter ratings. (The exception would be military-trained pilots.)
But if you do find an employer willing to train you from the ground up, do let us know. I’m sure you’re not the only one looking for a situation like that.
i once had a potential student ask me if i thought it was a good idea to get his training paid for my the local police dept in return for 3 years of walking the beat as a cop. he was 24. i told him if he could find a job offer like that, jump on it. i think that’s really the only way an employer will pay for your initial training. i would be a little wary of any employer willing to invest $60K minimum in a pilot without any strings attached. there are a lot of rules and regulations that bottom-feeder operators out there try to bend and break but they get a slap and a fine, you as the pilot lose your ticket.
I should mention here that I did meet a pilot who worked for a police force — Cleveland? Cincinnati? — which paid for his pilot training. He was already a cop, of course, and was trained straight up through CFI so he could train others on the local police force. So I guess there must be some opportunities out there.
I know that to get my turbine transition training with a Grand Canyon tour operator, I had to sign a contract to agree to work the entire season at what I still think is a very low rate of pay. That was worthwhile to me. But they weren’t hiring any pilots with fewer than 1,000 hours of flight time. They wanted experienced pilots who would need very little training.
Dear Maria
So I have finally decided rather to attend a South African helicopter school instead of an American one. It makes much more sense financially. I am currently in the process of deciding which one to attend, so far POWERED FLIGHT seems like a good choice. They offer a training bond in which they pay for one’s CPL, instrument and instructor rating. After completion one works exclusively for them until the all the money has been paid off. Do you know whether this is as good an option as it seems? Do you know whether POWERED FLIGHT is a reputable flight school? Do you know any good schools in South Africa?
Stefan, you’re kidding, right?
Are you saying you’d put yourself in indentured servitude — because that IS what you’re describing — in another country halfway around the world for an unknown period of time to earn a pilot’s license that may or may not be valid in the U.S. when you return?
And exactly how is that BETTER than paying for flight training with a REPUTABLE U.S. training organization that hires its good CFIs and pays them real money until they build enough time to move on?
No, I’ve never heard of Powered Flight. But I hope you investigate them fully before you do something you might regret for the rest of your life.
I need to modify that last comment.
In scrolling back through the comments, I realized that Stefan already LIVES in South Africa. So going there isn’t an issue.
The indentured servitude, however, still is. Is that common in South Africa?
there’s lots of trucking companies that do it here in the us
Ha-ha, sorry for the misunderstanding, should probably have mentioned that I live in South Africa.
I didn’t realize it’s that serious. I am only bound to the company until I have paid of the amount (R350 000, +-$35k). I can choose how much I want to pay per month but must pay a minimum of R10 000 per month. I also do not have to pay any interest. It sounds fine to me. I will also thoroughly read the contract before signing.
I hope that you simply misunderstood the training bond principal, or else I will have to find a different way of paying for my training.
Stefan, it just seems pretty scary to me — signing on to work for an unknown period of time in unknown conditions.
But if you’re comfortable with it, I guess that’s okay. Have you spoken to any pilots who have been through the program and moved on to other jobs? If so what do THEY say?
Good luck, whatever you decide.
That sounds like a good idea. I will definitely contact previous pilots who have made use of this program. Thanks for the advice.
I doubt it’s as “scary” as you say, I am under the impression that Powered Flight is a reputable school (in South Africa at least). I am certain that our government would have put an end to a program which aims at exploiting people. Powered Flight claims that it’s possible to get out of the bond within 1.5-2 years.
Nevertheless I will do my homework on the subject and make an informed decision.
Maria,
I’m really surprised by your “indentured servant” response. The Military, Police forces, Colleges, and training programs all across this country have programs exactly like that. They pay for your training and you work for them until its paid off, or you have put in enough time w/ them to compensate their investment or you pay it off early. Nothing unusual or scary about it.
Yacov, don’t be surprised. I tend to speak my mind.
An indentured servant is a someone who gets free training in return for a predetermined amount of work. It was a popular practice in the US and elsewhere in the days when people wanted to learn a trade. I don’t think it’s very common in the U.S. anymore.
I really don’t see a correlation between indentured servants and the military or police forces. After all, don’t both of those pay the worker?
Please understand that I’ve seen too many gimmicks used to lure people into contacts that they later regret. I’m sure you can find at least 100 Silver State students who say they were conned. I know of other organizations that offer “jobs” where the worker pays to fly in order to build time — not only does the “employer” get all flying expenses paid, but he has a free pilot. Given what I’ve seen and heard about the helicopter industry and the desperation of many people who want to be pilots, I don’t think my observation was so out of line.
If Stefan does his homework and feels good about the agreement, it might be right for him.
Personally, I’d rather pay for my training up front and have the freedom to go elsewhere if things turned sour. But then again, I’m not in the same situation as Stefan.
I didn’t learn to fly at 18. I was in my late 30s and had the cash to pay for my training. I also missed out on 20 years of a career as a pilot.
Is there anyone in the Vancouver B.C. area who has heard of Heli-college. It is based out of langley B.C. and was just wondering if anyone has ever heard of it. Also is there many opportunities in British Columbia to gain hours by working. I’ve been in contact with the school and am considering it but im hoping to be able to get a job:P Thanks alot any input is appreciated.
Cole
Stefan,
The training bond requires a re-payment period of 60 months where you are not allowed to work for anyone else nor are you allowed to fly any other aircraft that does not belong to the school. You will need to pay for your PPL (+/- R160k) and then pass all comm Subjects and instructor subjects. Then you will need R200k to be deposited into an account. You will receive interest on it and the full amount once your debt is settled. The debt is closer to R400k. You do pay interest of 60% over the 60 months period and a 10% employment commission deducted from your pay every month. Remuneration is R350 per hour and you can expect 70-80 hours per month.
In exchange you get a new CPL.
Maria, thank you so much for starting a very valuable article and hence the very informative posts that followed. I really enjoyed going through all the responses since Apr 2007.
I’m from South Africa as well (same as Stefan) and did my HPPL parttime between Nov 2001 and Jul 2004. Got my rating on both the R22 and R44 and have a total of 110hrs. I also started with the intention to be a fulltime helicopter pilot, but actually realised everything that everyone was actually mentioning, that it is a tough journey, even to just get commercial. Expensive and job opportunities, especially in Africa, is scarce (or at least they will only look at you with 1000hrs+, and the real challenge is getting to that point)
I would say we (South Africans) are very fortunate in terms of training conditions, weather wise and financially. We have good weather, high altitude (5500ASL) and it cost about ZAR2800p/h (ar current exchange rate, that is about $280p/h) on the R22 and ZAR3600p/h ($360p/h) on the R44, and that includes everything, fuel, insurance, instructor fee, etc. To give you some perspective, I’m in IT and at the time I did my license, I was working full-time earning ZAR20000p/m after tax, with not alot of expenses, I could do about 3-4hrs per month training (also pushing the credit card debt a bit). This is probably not the way to go, but hey, I wanted to fly.
Stefan, I trained at Alpine Aviation (Grand Central) and Henley Air (Rand Airport) and between those 2 schools, Henley Air is probably the best in Gauteng (apologies to our non-SA readers who these locations will not make much sense too). I see that Powered Flight is at Wonderboom (Pretoria), and I wish I could give you some reference about them, but I haven’t heard much, so as Maria (and numerous others) suggested, do your homework. As for the “indentured servitude”, just to maybe clear up some confusion. This “bond” Stefan is talking about, is like a study loan, but I would be very careful, because, it will come with high interest, and because you can sign your own contracts at the age of 18 in SA since last year, this is a dangerous game. Try to stay away from debt, and rather try to work and train part time. Good luck with your training!
Thanks for the advice Willem. Do you know whether ATS is a good flight school? I went to them last week. They seem pretty good.
All the flight schools I’ve been to so far are relatively young. Most of them are only about 3 or 4 years old. Should I be scared of this?
Thanks for all the help.
Stefan,
I did my PPL through Powered Flight. I’m doing the training bond at a relatively high age of 31. If you are still living with your parents I would look at it. See it as an Apprenticeship. The school will have to give you work in order for you to pay the loan back. So you win all the way if you have a positive attitude! You will walk out with 3000 + hours where 1000 will be training. The flight school has contacts in the industry so a turbine job after 1000 hours is very likely. The best would be to speak to Martin (the owner). Go have a cup of tea with him at Wonderboom. Good luck.
Maria,
You described buying your own heli to get hours. I did this with good success with a multi-engine fixed wing and then went on to a 10 year commuter job. For various reasons I am no longer doing that but now have an urge to fly heli’s. If someone has the resources to buy an R-22, do you think it can produce an income? Thanks
Jeff, if you weigh less than 160 lbs, I think you can make money in an R22. With a commercial ticket, you can do photo flights. With a CFI, you can teach people to fly. You might also be able to do hops at carnivals, etc, but it’s tough to make money doing one passenger at a time. Do I think you can make enough money to pay for the helicopter AND earn a decent living? No. Not with an R22. But you might be able to pay for the aircraft while you build time. Good luck.
Maria, im 22 years of age, i am doing my private licence course in march/april 2009. Next year hopefully the commercial! Is this a good time for me to start in this business or am i just wasting my time and most of all my money? I am thinking by the time im 30 i will have alot of hours under my belt and a solid career but am i right? i mean there are thousands of pilots to compete with out there and will it be hard to find a job, even with 1000hours in years to come?
Reply appreciated!
Maria, I was reading over the blogs and it all seems the same to me. Is it really worth it to start at 40? I am due to retire from active duty soon and want to keep all of my options open. I have talked to a few schools in Texas and have found a school that will do the whole private, commercial, CFI, and instrument license for about $54K. Sound a bit much? I am not looking into buying a R22 but other than that, how can I build up my flying hrs? I guess I have always had this dream of flying some big corporate exec around; or the owner of a MLB, NFL, NHL team but it looks like there isn’t a big demand for that. Just trying to learn before I invest too much and get caught in a tail-spin.
40 is a tough time to start. Not exactly TOO OLD, but certainly not young enough to be able to build time before you get too old. I started flying at 38; I made my flying career happen by investing in an aircraft and starting my own business. I don’t recommend that unless you have another source of income; it can easily wipe you out.
The bigger problem these days is the military pilots coming into the job market. How can we compete against them?
But I’ll never tell anyone not to follow their dream. That’s what life is for, isn’t it? We only have one shot; let’s make it count.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
Wow…I guess I’ll check out Culinary School. People still gotta eat.
Well, I just finsihed reading all these posts and got a lot of good information from them. I’ve got one very important (to me, anyway) question that I need to ask. Does anyone know of any low-hour job you can get, other than CFI, to build hours? Obviously they will be few and far between, but it will really help to know what jobs they may be so I can keep an eye out for them. I just… don’t really have the correct personality to be a teacher, so I’m hoping to avoid this when the time comes. I’m 19, and I’ve just recently started my training. I will be mentally preparing myself to be a CFI since I likely will have to, but again I would definitely like to avoid it.
And thanks to Maria, all the other posters, and all future posters.
Powerline/pipeline patrol
Mako: The problem is that with so many pilots in the job market and so many of them willing to work for any amount of pay — and even others willing to pay their employers for flight time — an employer will hire the most qualified pilot out there. So why would he hire a 200-hour pilot when he can hire an 800-hour pilot for the same pay?
You will have a hell of a time building time without being a CFI. Best of luck to you, though.
@Chris
Hello,
I’ve been researching flight schools in Florida, they all say they are the best. Would you be able to name atleast three reputable schools and the one that you choose. Bristow Academy in Titusville seems to stand out.
I am training in Hawaii at http://www.maunaloahelicopters.com I checked with helicopter academy which promised me a job after 300 hours, but training in hawaii just beat out. The school has housing that is farely affordable, and the climate you train in here is the most diverse in the world. From what I’ve witnessed the rotorcraft industry basically looks at 200 hour pilots like a STD no one wants one, if you don’t have 1000+ hours and preferably 500 turbine your of little value. Does anyone know of work in the middle east? Most job opportunities mentioned on this site are state side. Also, I am working on my Commercial rating right now but already hold a private rating rotorcraft, do you think it would be wise to work on my IFR rating while building PIC time for my commercial rating?
Thanks David
Hello,
I am 21 and am serious about starting helicopter training. I live in Arizona where there are quite a few schools to choose from. I am looking into Universal Helicopters in Prescott for the high altitude flight training as well as recording all flight hours as high altitude flight. The course is in the 85k – 90k range and is only supposed to take 6 months as a full time student (7am – 5pm with homework) but they hire in house CFIs after receiving your license. Is high altitude flight really worth it? I can always take flight training in the valley but I would loose the high altitude aspect of the training. Also what qualifies as high altitude training? I was getting a bit discouraged reading all of the comments but I really want to fly and if I start now I figure I can have a career as a helicopter pilot by 30. The biggest worry I have is after paying all this money when and how will I pay it all back while still keeping my head above water? I really enjoyed reading all of the comments and have a better understanding of what I am getting into now.
Thank you,
Andrew
Andrew: First of all, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you not sign up with any program that requires you to pay a large lump sum in advance. Silver State went belly up owing money to hundreds of its students — those people are now stuck paying back loans for training they never received. Do you want to be in that situation?
Also, please don’t be conned by training organizations that claim to hire graduating students as CFIs. They cannot possibly hire every single student that goes through the program as a full-time employee. What if they don’t hire you? Or what if they hire you for just 5-10 hours a week?
And how will you pay back a loan for $85-$90K if you don’t have a job or can’t build the time you need to get one?
The helicopter job market SUCKS right now for entry level pilots. Silver State’s demise dumped hundreds of CFIs and low-time pilots on the already saturated market in January/February 2008. Entry level employers are cutting back because of the condition of the economy and the reduction in tourism. Pilots coming into the job market are competing against Iraq/Afghanistan vets trained by the military. Who do you think an employer will hire if given a choice?
I don’t mean to discourage you, but I don’t want to see you or anyone else suckered in by a sales speech at any flight school. There are too many helicopter pilot training factories out there. I believe student pilots deserve better for their money.
As for high density altitude training — it will DEFINITELY make you a better pilot. Will it help you get a job? I think that once you have the 1,000 hours everyone is looking for, you’re just as likely to get a job without the special training as with it. You might consider getting your private down in the valley and going for your commercial rating in Prescott. I consider 5,000 feet DA high density altitude. Mountain flying is a good skill, too, but you can get a bit of that down in Phoenix if you ask for it.
Good luck — and think things through before signing on any dotted lines.
Hi I have recently started getting back into flying. The flight school I got all my training at folded and the owner skipped town with his stripper girlfriend. I have a wife and want to start a family but the allure of the helicopter is too much. My question is this. After I complete my CFI where would be a good place to look for CFI positions. Thanks
I am looking for a helicopter training program around ne texas to get some remedial training, for lack of a better word. I am an Army trained pilot in UH-1H and OH-58A/A720 with 650+ hours and am looking to start flying again, but haven’t found a program within 100 miles. Got any search recommendations?
Thanks.
I have a duel rating in helicopters and single engine airplanes (private pilot) and I will hopefully be done with my commercial rating in a couple of weeks. But there are no opportunities, as this thread had mentioned, for low time pilots. More and more I realize that the best opportunity to be a pilot in any kind of aircraft, is going through the millitary. It’s something that I have avoided with a passion but that always comes out as the answer. Something to consider for those who are still at the beginning and want to fly.
Wow, heck-uv-alot of information here. Good stuff. pros and cons alike. If I’m going to start now, say in 3-4 years, when I’m theoretically done with my professional flight program (and building 1000 hours as a CFI) here in the Portland, Or area, where do you think the helicopter market will be? Just curious….
unless you are training very part-time, it shouldn’t take you more than 2 years to get through all of your ratings and be teaching. then maybe another two years to get enough hours to move on to other things. this is what’s currently happening in the industry (IMO)- all of the vietnam era pilots that everyone was proclaiming ready for retirement? well, their 401ks took a big hit in the last two years and they aren’t retiring until they lose their medicals or plain old croak. i worked with a bunch that lamented about NOT being able to retire. this means less openings for the younger pilots who’ve been building time teaching and in the gulf/tour industry. the other thing you have is employers tightening belts. this industry seems to always have openings as pilots move on to the next, better thing. but not so much right now. people are staying put for fear of not being able to find another job as stable or not being able to sell their house. in a year or two, all of the military trained pilots will be finishing their 4 year stint and will be entering the job market too. some are predicting a flood of 1000 hr military pilots. i personally don’t think it’ll be that bad, because we’re already seeing an increase in availability of lower time pilots. as the market saturates with low timers, employers will drop pay and benefits, which they’re already doing due to the “recession”. the point is this: the industry is always bleak if you’re the one looking for decent employment but if you’re talking to a flight school, they’ll tell you things are rosy. when i started my training 7 years ago, i was sold the same old song and dance they’re still using. at that time it was partly true and i was able to get a job in the gulf with 1004 hours. you’ll be hard pressed to find post CFI employment without 1200+ hours now.
if you are committed to staying in the portland area (or any area) just realize that you will have a harder time getting that first non-instructing job. you may have to teach longer until an opportunity arises. most pilots consider themselves nomads, following the next, better paying, more challenging job, wherever it may be.
one last thing, and i think it bears repeating for all of those people thinking about changing careers. you will never make huge money without basically working huge overtime (and giving up friends and family). hope for $50k after a few years, stick around at a job and eventually you might make $70-80k. there’s always that legendary job, the $80k right out of training. i made $70k the second year out of training but was miserable and it was unsafe (the pay bump was to turn a blind eye) so i quit. my life is worth more than that. a lot of the other pilots stayed for the money, knowing they wouldn’t make anywhere near that with the hours they had. i personally don’t like to be owned.
what’s the outlook? i think it’ll get better as the economy recovers, just be prepared for a few years of ramen noodles and roommates.
Wow I have read your blog and you scare me to death. I have always wasnted to be a helicopter pilot and was thinking at my age of 48 would be a fun full time endever. What I was wanting to do is start a flight school as a part time business as I have another part time business that I earn my living from and I work at home. Do you think this is possiable?
Looks like I’m to old to ever work in the industry and make a living but part time I thought I could fly and break even.
Marc: Didn’t mean to scare you…just wanted to insert a dose of reality. There was (and still is) far too much overly optimistic information floating around, originated by flight schools. The entry level helicopter pilot job market is highly competitive and it’s hard (or expensive) to build time without a job. The good jobs require a lot of experience. Starting your own helicopter business requires a lot of money.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck!
Ok Here is what we do. All I need is for 75000 people to send me 1 buck then I can pay for Heli school. How about That?
Marc: Not likely to happen — unless you’re on good terms with 75,000 people. And then you still face the problem of a weak job market.
This whole weak job market thing is unlucky to whatever country you guys come from. Here in Africa the game capture market is good. Its a dangerous job as you push your helicopter to the limits but you get payed R4000 an hour($571) and after a year or so of doing it most of it becomes pure profit(because you have to cover a bit of insurance and fuel in the beginning). So spend about 6 years in the game capture buisness and your good to go. I’m 15 and plan to do the same when i’m older. One of my friends uncle does this and I know a few other guys who do aswell. Its good pay
I think I would like to get about 20 pilots from SE Wisconsin together and start a helicopter Service. All of SE WI is wide open and could do a 5 state area heli service. Anybody in?
Been searching the web for a week or two now and I see alot of EMS Pilot positions. Yes you need 2000+ hours but the jobs are there. If you go to collage for 4 years you come out with a debt get a entry level job and start working your way. Not so different in being a pilot.
Hey Marc you are right on the respect that it is much like going to college,and there are a lot of EMS jobs but where your judgement is in error, is that there are no entry level jobs. As we all know, you can’t have the high end high hour Pilot job unless you have done your time as a CFI or better. The other aspect is that a College degree applies to most types of jobs where a Commercial Aviation License, or CFI or ATP is only applicable for aviation jobs and will carry little weight in other fields. Your best bet is to attend an aviation based University, where you can cross train in other aspects of aviation which will open up other avenues for you to pursue, good luck in your venture into aviation keep flying
Paul: Excellent point. A pilot certificate alone will never be more than that. A university degree, however, can open a lot more doors.
Hey you never told us how you are doing with your helicopter. Are you making any money with it? Are you able to make the payments and Insurance? What kind of work do you do with it? etc.
Marc: You haven’t poked around this site enough yet. I write about my flying business all the time. I’m sure you’ll find answers to your questions here somewhere.
Hi Maria
I was on this site a while back asking about helicopter training.
Now I’m close to finishing my HPPL, and will start building hours for my Commercial early next year.
I’ve done all my training in South Africa and the general message I’ve been getting is that there are not too many jobs available for pilots with low hours. It seems likely that I’ll have difficulty finding a job in South Africa once my training is complete.
What are the Job opportunities for low hour pilots like in the States? I can’t imagine that they could be any better than in South Africa, but there’s no harm in asking…
Even if jobs are not available to pilots with low hours, is it even realistic for me to hope to get a job in the US some day, or would it be too difficult to get a work visa?
Regards
Stefan
Stefan: I think the job market is pretty tight here in the US — especially for low-time pilots. I’m getting at least one call or e-mail per week from folks with as little as 200 hours. I don’t know ANY company that would hire a pilot to fly for them with that little time as PIC. The company I worked for, which was an entry level job, required 1,000 hours PIC. The market here is flooded with low-time pilots. Sorry I can’t share any better news, but lots of guys were sold a dream that simply can’t come true for everyone who bought into it.
Thank you so much Maria for your post. I agree, lots of good insights here. I’m 34, single, thinking of training to be a helicopter pilot in the Los Angeles area. It sounds like the industry needs some serious organization that puts pilots’ interests ahead of the insurance companies. I’m not in favor unions, but it sure sounds like it’s needed for such a special skill.
I’m being told that helicopter pilots are in more demand than fix wing pilots; is this true or false? My school is promising me that I can obtain a commercial license in 6-8 months as a full time student, is this realistic? How do you see the industry in the near future for helicopter pilots now that it’s 2010?
My plan is to get licensed, and build up my experience by teaching to get a job as a EMS pilot. How does one get 500 Turbine time?
I appreciate your response.
John: I’m not sure where you got the insurance company interests from. Is it because 1,000 hours of flight time are required by many employers? While this is often an insurance requirement, I think it’s a good requirement for a tour or charter operator to have in place. I’ve flown with low-time pilots — guys with 300 to 500 hours of flight time — and I can attest to the fact that they’re not experienced enough to take on the responsibility of carrying multiple passengers in complex flying conditions. Because most of them build time as CFIs — teaching other people how to hover, do flight patterns, and autorotate to a hover — they lack what I call “real world” experience. That’s the experience a pilot needs to make decisions on the fly as needed. Decisions that can’t be learned in a text book or through repetitive flights at the same five local airports. I don’t know about you, but when I’m a passenger on any aircraft, I want my pilot to have been exposed to as many experiences as possible so he’s better able to handle what comes up. A trip through the NTSB reports can confirm that low-time pilots are more likely to get in trouble than high-time pilots. If you don’t regularly review accidents/incidents on the NTSB Web site, I recommend it. It can be enlightening.
That said, I don’t think the introduction of unions would help low-time helicopter pilots at all. Companies utilizing entry-level pilots will simply not employ union pilots. And if you ever want to prevent yourself from getting ahead in a job once you have it, try to unionize your shop. You’ll go nowhere fast. Employers want good, skilled, reliable pilots. They don’t want troublemakers. And no business is going to prefer a pilot with union strings attached than one without them.
I don’t know if helicopter pilots are in more demand than fixed wing pilots. Who told you this? A helicopter flight training organization? Consider the source of the information before taking it as gospel. Flight schools paint rosy pictures of the industry to hook student pilots. You’d be better off asking a bunch of recent graduates how they’re doing than asking me. I’m not looking for a job.
With the economy the way it is right now, I really don’t see an expansion in the need for helicopter pilots. Tourism — the traditional entry-level job — is down. Money is tight. Employers are paying as little as possible and hiring fewer pilots. But as the economy recovers, all job segments should improve, including pilot jobs. So I think the picture should be rosier soon.
Yes, 6-8 months is reasonable as a full-time student to get a commercial license. I’m not sure if you can get a CFI in the same time, but you might if you really applied yourself. Be aware that if you plan to build time as a CFI, you need a job as a CFI. All flight schools claim they hire their students as CFI, but could they possibly hire all of their students as CFIs? The more students you’re working with, the quicker you’ll build that time. If, for example, you only fly with students 10 hours a week, it’ll take you 80 weeks — that’s a year and a half — to build the 800 hours you need (on top of your 200 or so of PIC time from training) to get that entry level job. So don’t get fooled into thinking that you can train for 8 months and be qualified for a pilot job.
How does one get 500 hours of turbine time? In an entry level job flying turbine helicopters. That means flying at the Grand Canyon, Alaska, or possibly the Gulf of Mexico. One season at any of these places should get you 500 hours.
Good luck.
Hey Maria,
It doesn’t look like the Helo Pilot industry has taken an upswing from your initial blog in 2007! I just started flight school in Denton, TX. and am really enjoying it. I do work for a major corporation full time and train either after work or on the weekends, the G.I. bill is covering 60% of my costs (incrued after my private pilots rating), what do you foresee the industry doing by 2012ish? You seem very experienced and to have a feel for the pulse of the industry. I’m just curious as I should be getting close to 1000 or so hrs by then.
Zach: Agreed. I think things have gotten considerably worse. Quite a few local helicopter operators have gone out of business. It would be good for survivors like my business if the customers were out there, but they’re not. I did a total of THREE revenue flights in January. Not nearly enough to cover my basic costs.
The GI bill is a GREAT thing. Just met another pilot who starts training this month under the GI bill. You guys deserve a break after serving our country — thank you!
I think that as the economy recovers, the industry will recover. I sure hope everything is back to normal (or better) by 2012. I don’t think I can support my business that long without more customers and work.
Best of luck to you!
Maria,
Thank you for your prompt reply, I will just continue to do the best I can at my training and pray that the industry will be on the upswing as I get closer to being employable. Take care and keep up the good work!
Thanks, great information. I’m 50 and was looking for a possible new career but I couldn’t go through that now!
I’ve been a pilot for just over 7yrs now, and I’ve only managed to buy about 600hrs. I, of course, haven’t been able to find a job as a pilot, its probably because I’ve been having trouble becoming a teacher(no one ever said if you can’t teach, you can’t get paid to fly). I’ve thought of giving it another try, but why bother, there aren’t any CFi jobs anymore?
I definitly agree with one of the other posts, in that being a CFi does not give you “real” experience, how could it, your getting PIC time without even touching the controls! Unfortunatly with the HUGE SURPLUS OF PILOTS in the industry, operators don’t have to care about us “low-timers”.
I don’t know why anyone would try to get into this industry. There are no “real” entry-level jobs, and so many unemployed CFis, that begs the question, why bother even becoming one?
Flying tours would be nice, and I don’t care about the pay, but 1500hrs, that’s a pipe dream! Or a nightmare?
Stefan- did you attend powered flight in south africa or another school? Are you going to work off your schooling?
Donkey- where you happy with the powered flight school? Did you walk out with 3000+ hours by the time you paid back your training bond? What did you do for that time (cfi,or??).
Thanks Mike
Mike
Yeah, I did go to Powered Flight for my training. Great school, friendly competent people, nice vibe, good location… I would definitely recommend it. I completed my PPL in November last year and will be doing my CPL through them this year.
Where are you from Mike?